I sat down with Brian McLaren, author of The Great Spiritual Migration.

Here is my review of the book:

It has the grace of A Generous Orthodoxy, the scholarly depth of The Secret Message of Jesus, the challenging invitation of We Make The Road by Walking, the inclusiveness of Why Did Jesus, Moses, the Buddha, and Muhammad Cross the Road, the spiritual depth of Finding Our Way Again, and yet something altogether different. It was elevating, transcendent, and radically transformative. Read this book. Read this book. Read this book.

My conversation with Brian centered on his call for a radical shift from an exclusive religion of dominance to a love centered way of life seen in the life, ministry, teachings, death, and resurrection of Jesus. This is a global way of love that cares deeply for all people, no matter their ethnicity, nationality, social status, economic status, or sexual orientation. It is a global way of love that cares deeply for the environment and its impact on everyone in the world, not just the wealthy.

As McLaren wrote:

If we could actually deliver on a promise to deliver this kind of lifelong learning and love to children, youth, and adults of all ages, I could easily imagine waiting lists replacing empty pews. Such a migration to love would help our churches change their line of business, so to speak, from the making and certificates of Christians, Baptists, Catholics, Pentecostals or whatever, to the lifelong formation of compassionate human beings, apprentices of love, who live in the way of Jesus.

Subscribe or Livestream

CBF Church Starts Podcasts launched in early 2016 to share the stories of CBF church starters from across the Fellowship and interviews of people partnering to do groundbreaking work in renewing God’s world. The vision is to share ideas, stories, and innovations from church starters, pastors, and practitioners.

Join this bi-weekly audio podcast by subscribing in iTunes or in TalkShoe.


This podcast episode is brought to you by Sema Films, a full video production company, Smyth & Helwys Publishing “Next Sunday,” and Gardner-Webb University School of Divinity.

Andy Hale leads Church Starts Initiative of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. Hale is a CBF church starter who serves pastor of Mosaic of Clayton in Clayton, N.C.